MCH Bridges: The Official AMCHP Podcast

Episode #6: The Kids Are Not Okay: Climate Change, Environmental Injustice, and What MCH & Youth Advocates Can Do

• AMCHP • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In the first part of this episode, we talk with Rhea Goswami, co-founder of the Environmental Justice Coalition (EJC), about why youth engagement is so important, especially when working to address climate change and climate injustices, how MCH can engage with young people, the importance and impact that environmental health has on MCH populations, and the need for environmental and media literacy skills for children and youth.

In the second part of the episode, we chat with one of Rhea’s mentors, Dr. Megan Latshaw in the Department of Environmental Health & Engineering at Johns Hopkins University, about networking, the connection between environmental health and MCH, environmental justice, and what MCH professionals can do.

Resources:
EJC's Instagram
EJC's Podcast "A Cup of EJ"
Children's Environmental Health Day panel interview with Rhea
Maryland Environmental Human Rights Amendment Toolkit (co-authored by Rhea)

Maura Leahy:

We've known for a long time, now that we need to do a better job of protecting our environment. When I was in grade school, what this looked like to me was completing an activity sheet. There was a local organization that would bring in these double sided sheets of paper. I think sometimes the paper might be a color other than white, but it wasn't something that excited me or that I particularly looked forward to on these sheets was a list of different activities. Like taking a walk and looking for certain things in nature, writing a poem, reminding your parents about recycling, things like that. I can't remember how often we got it or how many things we had to do to. But I just remember not liking it very much. It was required as homework and being an opinionated child. I thought I bad enough homework already. Let alone having to do all these extra things that I think I probably knew, even then, weren't gonna make much of an impact on the environment. Fast forward, 20 plus years. And I'm sitting in my home office in year two of the pandemic it's children's environmental health day, and I'm wanting to participate in some of the online events, but zoom burnout and virtual fatigue is real. And my current work projects have me. I'm able to tune in for this afternoon panel called teaching and talking with youth about climate and health, but I'm just planning on having it on in the background while I work on some other things that is until I hear RIA. Goswami the minute RIA started talking, she had my full attention. I took my hands off my keyboard and sat there, listening to her. Talk about co-founding a non-profit organization. I hear her when she talks about the steps that we need to be taking now to protect not only our planet, but the health and wellbeing of kids and future generations. I knew then that when I had the opportunity, I had to learn more about R and the work of the nonprofit. She co-founded the environmental justice coalition or EJC in the span of just one year. EJC has been invited to speak at the American public health. Association's 150th anniversary conference. Partnered with the Baltimore transit equity coalition to create a curriculum for Baltimore county public schools on the environment and health and created five original policies and seven toolkit campaigns. Just to name a few. Did I mention that she's also a high school senior going to school full time. I sat down and talked with RIA about youth engagement and actions we need to be taking now to address climate injustice. The more I hear RIA talk, the more inspired I become, and I hope this discussion will be an inspiration for you. Two, thank you for tuning into this episode of MCH bridges, where we lift up innovative ideas and inspiring stories from people in the maternal and child health field. Rhea, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited to talk with you and I thought we could start our discussion talking about why. So one thing that we lifted up throughout the 2022 AMCHP conference, and that we're going to continue to lift up is sharing your why. So why people in the maternal and child health field do what they do, how they got to this path and really celebrating the diversity of people who work in maternal and child. I would love if you could share a little bit about what drives you, what your, why is and what led you to co-found your own non-profit.

Rhea Goswami:

Yeah. So I think my why kind of began at the beginning of high school and especially because in high school, I did a lot at the beginning. I did debate and that kind of like kick started my interest into policy and talking about current political issues. I'd always been super interested in politics and debate was kind like an avenue where I could actually interact with. And then I took it a step further. Once the pandemic hit, I was kind of like looking for things to do if I just had a lot of time on my hands I'd never had before. So one of the things that came up while scrolling through social media actually was the greater good initiative and shout out to Tarina and Adam, they actually were the ones who really kick started my love of policy advocacy. And especially in this organization, I learned so much about what it means and why we really need to advocate and make policies as youth, because we have a unique perspective on certain issues that people don't often see. And especially because we're going to be the legislators, policy makers, advocators scientists of tomorrow, it's really important that we get these skills now in order to start even making some sort of change. Once we're older, really what drove me to co-found EJC was really trying to unite my love of biology and environmental science. Trying to make an impact on my community and trying to do something and give back to the community that gave me so much and gave me so many skills. And I think because I recognize a lack of youth voices within this space. Like it's not every day that you see a kid talking about environmental justice and environmental racism. They're really big in heavy topics with a lot of history and a lot of pain behind them. But I think it's really important for youth to A) get educated about. And B) realize that they have a stake in this fight and that they really to help kind of like advocate for their environment tomorrow. So it is unfortunate that we do have to take it upon ourselves to make some of these changes, but I think it's a really valuable experience and that's kind of like a really roundabout way of saying what my, why is

Maura Leahy:

no, I think it's a perfect way. And it sounds like it was also kind of the perfect storm of all really good things. Just a brilliant example of what someone's, why can look like. And sometimes it. Very lined up and people know really early on, like, this is what they wanna do. And other times, like with you, it seems like there were just all these different factors that came together. Can you walk me through what it was like? Founding EJC, cuz I know, I wouldn't know where to start.

Rhea Goswami:

Yeah. I think I'm still learning a lot along the way. And I think when we first started, I kind of reached out to Natasha and who's my co-founder and I was like, Hey, you know, I have this really cool idea and I cannot do it alone. So would you be willing to help me along on this. I guess organization and journey and a part of it stemmed from the fact that we were in an organization where we, um, noticed a lot of like flaws in the leadership. And we were like, Hey, you know, we can do it. Wasn't a similar like focus area, but we were like, Hey, you know, we can take the mistakes that we learned while being on this leadership board and turn into something that's kind of like, A learning experience and take it like as a lesson of growth into our own organization. So that's kind of like where we started, cuz we were already on these leadership boards for other youth organizations. So then our next step was kind of like, okay, so now we have this idea, what do we make us branding? What do we envision our organization to be? So a lot, a lot of late night FaceTime calls and zoom calls, trying to figure out. What are the policy sectors we want, what are some examples of positions we want? What are the fellows going to look like answering a lot of these questions? And we kind of like really went through everything and thought everything.

Maura Leahy:

A core belief in the work that AMCHP does. And the other state and jurisdictional title five maternal and child health agencies is the importance of positive youth development and really meaningfully engaging youth in the work that we do all the time, you know, from the start, not just bringing them in at the last minute. So let's just say that I am a public health professional who is wanting to do more working with youth, being able to help work with them, alongside them to elevate. Their causes and issues that they're interested in. Where should I start? I'll take

Rhea Goswami:

the example of Dr. Latshaw on how she really helped. I think the number one thing is like being a mentor because obviously as high school and college kids and as youth in general, we don't know everything. And even though we might seem like we do, we really don't know everything about the space that we are now entering and compared to a professional who's been there for like years, sometimes even decades. And I think just really extend that guiding hand that, Hey, you know, I will give you my connections and like kind of like uplifting the organization and these youth being like, Hey, you know, I'll introduce you to this person. And even just giving them like a simple introduction can take people so far. Like for example, Dr. Latshaw introduced us to her initiative and she's like, Hey, you know, I think this organization can really help you. And we got really involved with like the Maryland amendment for environmental human rights. We helped them create a better advocacy tool. We got involved with Baltimore transit equity coalition to help them create a curriculum for Baltimore county students. And I think just like extending that guiding hand and giving them your. Opportunities partnerships or like even just your connections really, really helps. Another thing is that just giving them time, like I was just giving them your time to talk. And I think that's a really rewarding experience. Like, for example, when I first reach out to Dr. Latshaw, it was at a John Hopkins university open house for college. The fact that she gave me like 30 minutes of her day to talk, once I emailed her, it just really stood out to me. I will forever be thankful because without her really EJC, wouldn't be where it is right now. And we wouldn't have gone in contact with the children's environmental health network without Dr. Latshaw pulling us there too. So I think just keeping in mind, these youth and creating space for them essentially really helps, but also just listening to what they have to say. You know, even though yes, they're kids, they do have valuable things to say and valuable insights. And I think just like giving them a chance. It's the first way you can start.

Maura Leahy:

I love you saying that cause. So I started my foray into the public health field, working in the adolescent sexual health field. So teen pregnancy and STI prevention, I, I realized then that there were still, this is years ago at this point, but there are still a lot of stereotypes and assumptions that adults made of youth and just not really valuing youth and young adults for the intelligent and very capable people that they are. Like, yes, they are young, but they have so much to offer. I guess my follow up question is how would I get in touch with youth? So, you know, rather than waiting for a young person to reach out to me in my role as public health professional, are there things that I could do to reach out to youth and to engage them or what would be the ways that I could go about finding youth who would be interested perhaps in working with me?

Rhea Goswami:

I think first it's like anything. I think of just like networking with youth, like, for example, at these conferences, for example, like I spoke on a panel for a children's environmental health day, and I think like, just reaching out, like sending them an email, being like, hi, you know, I saw your work and I'd be really interested to talking to you. It's kind of similar even the other way around if. Youth were to reach out to public health professionals. And I think you can just approach it like that. There's also LinkedIn. And I think you can find a lot of youth who are doing really important work on LinkedIn, as well as just like maybe just Googling, like if for the sectors or the things that people are interested in. There's a lot of climate action, youth groups, for example, there's more than I think public health officials really even think about. I think just taking that first step of emailing these. I mean, like, hi, you know, I would love to like talk to you or just work with you in general. I think just taking that first step of like, making that contact through email, or I guess LinkedIn would really, really.

Maura Leahy:

I mean, that's literally the story of how we got connected is me seeing you present and being like, I need to talk to this person. Yeah. And

Rhea Goswami:

I think people are super open to the prospect of even just talking. And I think that's, that's a really good thing that kind of came out the pandemic, like this ability to really be open to connecting with very different people.

Maura Leahy:

So one thing I've noticed. How big a part of public health that environmental health is and what a huge impact that environmental health has on physical and mental health outcomes. But I feel like sometimes environmental health gets somewhat siloed from broader public health, but the more I educate myself on climate justice and environmental health, the more I realize just how impactful this is for maternal and child health populations.

Rhea Goswami:

You can imagine a child's health, like a piece of play for like a piece of. and essentially the environment comes and like pokes holes in it and like modifies it. That also means any toxins are in our environment. And anything are essentially precursors for illnesses that could come later down the line. And I especially think, like, for example, Flint, Michigan, they had the water crisis. And basically these talks, since something negatively have affected the memory of these children, And a myriad of other things. If there's a lot of air pollution in an area and children are playing around it, or like, for example, if there's a community right next to a factory, children are going to have significantly higher levels of asthma and probably like bronchitis and other lung infections. They're gonna be a lot more susceptible to these things. Environmental health and public health are really the same thing. And if you have a healthy environment, you will. A healthier public. And I think people don't realize that connection right off the bat. And the fact like things like 2050 is coming and all these like climate catastrophes essentially. And it's like all of these like massive events that we're just not gonna have. And it have no place to live is really just jarring. And I think people just need to start realizing that we need to do something about it and take into account that again, environmental health is public health, and if you want everyone to be healthy, you have to make the environment healthy as well. so I think that's the first place to start. Really.

Maura Leahy:

So one thing I have heard you mention a couple times while we've been talking is that people don't realize it. I think another thing that's unique about climate change and environmental justice too, is that it's a cross generational issue. So a lot of the folks that are in power positions or the people that are at decision making levels are adults who aren't going to have to live with the consequences of those decisions.

Rhea Goswami:

Yeah. They don't have to. And I. That's why I think I was so passionate about, or I still am really passionate about the work that the Maryland environmental human rights group is doing. Cuz they're essentially, they're trying to pass an amendment and to the Maryland constitution that basically says everyone, including future generations. Have the right to a clean and safe environment, like clean air, clean drinking water and things like that. And I think just having that is super important because we've always heard throughout school, like life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or life, Liberty, and property, but all of those hinge on the fact of that, we have a clean environment and I think people need to realize that our rights are inherently intertwined with having a really clean environment. So that's why we take matters into our own hands. And we try to like accelerate the process. So I. Just a lot of it is like, yeah, they don't have to live with the consequences, but I think many of them do realize what the consequences could be. And I think we just have to keep, keep advocating, keep telling them that, like, this is a real threat. This is a real threat. You have to do something about it.

Maura Leahy:

One thing that we hear about a lot in the news that you just mentioned is by 2050 or some other date that something is going to happen. And I hear that and I know that that means that action needs to happen. Another big problem that you've brought to light for me is that kids, an adolescents are hearing these things all the time. What does that mean for them? And what is it like as a child or an adolescent to hear these things?

Rhea Goswami:

As a child hearing all of these things like 2050 carbon neutral, uh, the world's gonna end by 2100. And I think it's just all very jarring. And I think it doesn't people don't talk about this enough, but climate anxiety and just hearing like essentially just children and adolescent are essentially just hearing impending doom upon them. Like, we don't know how to understand or interpret it. We don't know how to solve it, but I think that in and of itself, just not having any power to do anything. Really stresses out children, especially who are living in the pandemic. There's already so many things to worry about as a child and you shouldn't have to worry about will I have a clean and safe environment? I think that's one thing, but also just children don't understand these things. We're not taught what carbon neutral means in school. We're not taught what the year 2050 will look like in school. I think that's one of the key issues. As adolescents and as youth or as children, we don't understand these things. We don't understand the news and we're not taught how to understand the news and how to understand what's going on in our climate. Yes. We're taught biology. Yes. We're taught ecosystems, but how long will these ecosystems last essentially with the advent of climate change? So first I think where we can start is like educating the youth. What these things mean environmental literacy is super important. I think that we should start that process much earlier and. Teaching these children, what this news means and essentially what can we do to solve it? Because I think just that impending doom is creating lots of anxiety within children and within teens, especially. And that's why I think so many of us are trying to go out and like make a movement and join organizations that are essentially fighting against this so that at least we can know, we contributed to an effort to solve this issue.

Maura Leahy:

I don't think the concept of environmental literacy existed when I was in high school. So it sounds like a, we need to start early B, we need to be teaching children actual skills. What would it look like to understand environmental health from a children's point of view?

Rhea Goswami:

So I think first off the start for media literacy is understanding what bias can look like in news sources, cuz every news source inherently has some bias. They're realizing which news sources can you go to that are inherently on biased as much as they can be. And then realizing how to process news. It's very easy to be detached. It's very easy just to look at your computer screen and be like, well, 2050 is like so many years away, you know, it won't happen to me or like it's not gonna affect me, but before, you know, it's going to come knocking on your front door and I think attaching yourself to these issues essentially, and like finding an issue you care about and then striving to make a difference within that community is I think one thing that kids can especially learn from media literacy, That they can do something like they can interact essentially with the information coming from their screens is I think one important takeaway for media literacy in terms of environmental health. I think you have to take more of a scientific approach and. Really be able to understand for young kids that like be, to be able to like read graphs, read data, read data tables. Cause a lot of the environmental health information we get comes from studies and to be able to digest those studies, essentially like if someone could make like a database for children to understand and digest media, I think that would be super helpful. I think, as an initiative and make that. Available to like science teachers across the United States and be like, Hey, you know, maybe take five minutes outta your day to go through one piece of news on that website or give one skill to each student. There's a lot of things that we can do starting from right now, even to really make a difference for children to be able to understand their environment, understand their news.

Maura Leahy:

No, I love that. Cause it's such an intersectional issue. It's school. It's. Public health. It's so many different things and you know, one thing that public. Does is a lot of data communication, data visualization. And so it's got me thinking, is this an area that public health, that epidemiologists and data folks can get involved in at health departments that they can create some databases that make this information accessible to children and adolescents and young adults and adults, because I am an adult and I know I've never been trained. Understand any of this data. So I love that idea and I hope it's kind of spurring some ideas in our listeners, too. It sounds like there are certain communities that are burying the brunt of the effects of climate change and environmental injustice that it's, it's a health equity issue. Really imagine that I'm a person who doesn't know much about environmental health. What do these health inequities look like from a lens of environmental justice?

Rhea Goswami:

Yeah. So environmental justice essentially like tackles the topic of basically just being like the fair and the fair and equal treatment involvement of all people, um, with the development implementation of these environmental laws, regulations and policies. I think specifically in these cases, we need the fair involvement of all of these people, especially these underserved communi. To really solve this issue of that's going on in Flint, Michigan, that's going on in cancer alley, Louisiana. And from the lens of environmental justice, I think we look at it more from a stance of like environmental racism and how certain communities are disproportionately impacted by these environmental issues. Like, for example, like depending on how affluent you are, that's typically how much cleaner your environment typically is. And typically communities of color have been placed in these areas. Have more toxins that have more environmental injustices essentially, but they do affect almost every community, but it just affects people differently. That's why we tackle things from a lens of environmental racism, cuz it puts things into perspective and cuz environmental justice is so broad. And that's why I think we're just trying to give people this equity and this justice that they deserve. Cuz everyone deserves the right to a healthy environment regardless of race. I think that's the most important thing to take away from environmental justice. It's not just like a buzzword, it's really just, we're trying to give people what they deserve. And I'm trying to just protect people's rights. Essentially.

Maura Leahy:

June is national healthy homes month, and housing is another one of those issues that I don't think people get that connection to that where you live. Can have a humongous impact on your health, like your mental health, your physical health, let alone how this is worsened by climate change and other systemic inequities. Like you've just mentioned, you know, racism and the history of red lining. And I would love a little challenge during the month of June. What is something that if I want to get involved or. If I just wanna reflect a little bit about environmental justice and equity, what would you suggest? I

Rhea Goswami:

think my first suggestion, like immediately, what came to mind when I thought of challenge was in each shade. There's such a variety of initiatives. For example, I talk a lot about Maryland because I live in Virginia. So it's the most successful state up. But there's so many environmental inequities. I think everyone can at least reach out to one organization, do a little bit of research, like hit one Google search and just look up initiatives. Or if you don't know, I'm sure public health officials and their colleagues have initiatives that they like to work on. You can ask your colleagues like, Hey, I know you work on environmental justice issues. Can you tell me one of your organizations and get into contact with them? Give your expertise back to the community. And I think that's my biggest challenge. And I think like everyone can at least take the time in their day to at least reach out to one person and just start a conversation even about this. And to start talking to maybe just someone, maybe your colleagues, maybe your family, about what is going on within our environment.

Maura Leahy:

I love that. I think it's, even if you just start with friends or family, you are starting somewhere, so, right. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to lift up for our listeners?

Rhea Goswami:

I think that people really need to realize that public health and these injustices are really intertwined and that we can all start somewhere in making a difference.

Maura Leahy:

So after talking with Rhea, I was intrigued to learn more about her relationship with one of her mentors, because we could all benefit from having a mentor or two.

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

Hi, I'm Dr. Megan Latshaw. I work at Johns Hopkins university. I'm the director of the master's degree programs in the department of environmental health and

Maura Leahy:

engineering. Dr. Latshaw. So much for taking the time to chat with me today. I, and I assume many of our listeners was so blown away by all that Rhea and the nonprofit she co-founded, the environmental justice coalition is doing. How did you first get involved with R and EJC?

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

So Rhea who is a high school student, which just blows my mind because she's amazing and inspiring and just has so much of her life ahead of her. She came to an information session at Johns Hopkins. They offer these sessions to admitted students, and I gave a talk about environmental health and I think climate and health and was on a panel. And afterwards she sent me a note and followed up and said, By the way, you know, I really liked your comments about environmental justice. I have this organization that I founded with my friend Natasha, and we would love to sort of just chat with you about it. And of course I said, yes, and the rest is history.

Maura Leahy:

I think that's one of the. Things that I'm noticing. The more that I'm in public health and AMCHP has a graduate student epidemiology program where we get the pleasure of supporting and working with interns who are graduate students in public health. And networking is one thing that we talk about a lot and. One thing we tell them and encourage them to do is to send some of those emails. And I think many of them have just been very surprised by how receptive the people on the other end receiving those emails are. I think people are hesitant at first to send the emails, but it can't hurt if you don't. And if you do. Great things can come out of it.

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

I agree. One of my favorite things to sort of bug my students about is networking because nobody ever taught me how to network when I was younger. In fact, I remember after I finished undergrad, they had a networking session that I signed up to attend and. I went and every single person I met, I started off by saying, hi, I'm Megan Weil. And I was a biology major and I'm working at Traveler's property casualty, but that's not where I wanna be for the rest of my life. And they just, they looked at me with like wide eyes, like, oh, okay. That's that's nice. That's great. And. I do try to teach my students that, you know, networking isn't necessarily about like actively finding your next job. It's more about building up the network of people that, you know, through informal laid back conversations, not these intense conversations that I was trying to have, but just, Hey, tell me about your work, as opposed to me telling them about me. You know,

Maura Leahy:

you just mentioned that you didn't have as many mentors earlier on in your. Student life and your career. What did you learn either from your experience of not having those mentors or what are some of those biggest lessons learned that you'd like to share now with those listeners who might be listening, who haven't had the chance to get connected with the mentor, especially living in this still very virtual world that we're living in?

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

I think my biggest lesson learned is it never hurts to ask. You know, I even remember being an undergrad. Being afraid to approach my professors and, you know, feeling as though I would be bothering them or that they would look down on me. And now that I'm on the other side of that, I have students who come to me all the time and I love it. You know, I love when they come and ask me questions, it's not being bothered at all. And you know, personally, after I finally did learn this lesson, I'm always shocked. Every time I bring myself to ask for something answer's usually been, yes. The worst that somebody can do is they can ignore you or they can say no. And then you just move on with your life. So I think always. Being willing to ask.

Maura Leahy:

So I wanted to turn our discussion now to the reason that you, Rhea, and EJC got connected. And that's because you are both passionate about environmental health injustice, and I will be the first to admit that this isn't my area of expertise, but it's a topic I'm trying to educate myself more on. For example, when I. Started working at AMCHP a couple years ago, we had a lead poisoning prevention project, and I truly didn't realize how much of an issue that lead poisoning still is for MCH populations. And I think one of the many takeaways I had from that project was just how connected environmental health and maternal and child health are.

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

Exactly. Yes. You know, one of my favorite stories was told ages ago by Dr. Leana Wen. Who I think kind of started out partly at her career in, uh, an emergency room. And she would see the, the same young man, basically every week in her emergency room. And she would treat him for asthma and she would send him back home. And he would come back again. And she knew that there was probably these exposures going on in his home that were bringing him back every week. But as an ER doc, she couldn't address the underlying cause of this issue. And so I think until we switch our system to thinking about what is it in the environment that's causing a lot of the health conditions that we're seeing in, in children and in, in pregnant women and in mothers, we thought. at first that infectious diseases could explain everything, right? That you get sick. It's probably an infectious disease. And then we started thinking, oh, well, there's this genetic thing too. And maybe genetics is gonna explain everything and we'll be able to predict who gets what illness? Well, genetics, hasn't been able to explain it too. And you know, at the end of the day, it's gotta be some interaction going on between your environment and your genes. And we still have such a. Shallow understanding of all these different interactions, cuz there's so many exposures and so many genes. And so we're just starting to understand, but things like lead and asthma, we understand that. And there's really no excuse that we, we haven't been able to address them that you thought lead wasn't a problem anymore, you know, but it is, it's still a serious

Maura Leahy:

problem. I felt. So I don't think uneducated is the word, but I think if I'm a public health professional who. Likes to think that I'm fairly knowledgeable about current events and issues and things that are affecting people. I was really gobsmacked when I was a part of that project and that's just one environmental health condition. And I think it's, I don't know how to, whatever degree, more complicated, because I think with environmental health, so many of these. Environmental health factors that are leading to these negative outcomes are linked to systems of oppression and racism. And I don't know if that is why. The topic seems so daunting to some people that we feel like we can't actually make progress in it. I know a new term that I have been hearing just over the past couple years, it's still something I'm learning about this environmental racism. And I was wondering if you could maybe explain a little bit about what that term means, kind of marrying the concepts of where does environmental justice meet racism and what that would look like for, uh, maternal and child. Yeah.

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

So a lot of people don't realize that, uh, Martin Luther king Jr. Was actually involved in environmental justice, environmental racism issues. In fact, the day before he was assassinated, he was protesting with sanitation workers about their working conditions. And soon after that is maybe sort of one of the first examples of people, sort of really recognizing the idea that there is such a thing as environmental injustice. And there was a community in North Carolina. And they were about to industry was about to ship all these chemicals down to this community. It was a community of color and the community said we don't want these chemicals. And they laid down in the road as a form of non-violent protest to say, you know, we don't want this now. Sadly, they didn't win that battle. But that's sort of is what we look to as the beginning of the environmental justice movement. And so much injustice is linked to racism because of policies like even, you know, redlining. Who was able to get mortgages and where, and then the neighborhoods where, you know, people of color were living, they were also the neighborhoods where industry would wanna put their incinerator or their factory or something that in white communities, they would've stood up and said, heck no, a lot of these communities of color were discriminated against. And so justice is about trying. You know, have some sort of right for those wrongs that have occurred historically and prevent them from occurring going forward. I

Maura Leahy:

know AMCHP and many other organizations and maternal and child health are committed to health equity and anti-racism, and I'm curious what it would look like for us to tackle some of these most pressing environmental health issues that are linked to these systems of oppression, like racism. What. Role could maternal and child health professionals play. Cuz it sounds so daunting, but I do think that there are solutions and there are people like you and like Rhea and EJC that see action that can be taken.

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

Not only do states have maternal and child health professionals, they also have environmental health professionals that are they're compatriots, maybe in the department of health. And. A lot of times there's these silos in the department of health. I mean, a first simple step could be setting up an hour long meeting between a maternal and child health program director and the environmental health program director and say, Hey, what are the issues around children's environmental health in our state? And where are, you know, the communities where there are injustices happening and, and how can we partner on this? And. Even if the partnership doesn't happen right away. I think just starting to build those, those bridges can really start to get your wheels turning. And then maybe the next time you see a grant application, you say, oh, wow, Hey, talk to, you know, the environmental health director about lead. And maybe this is our opportunity to, to address some of these issues together. So I think that would be a really good

Maura Leahy:

first. And I appreciate you mentioning communities too. Cause I that's one piece of the puzzle sometimes that I think get forgotten is so it's so important to involve and engage these people that are most impacted, including families and youth and all people with lived experience. So I just appreciate you saying that.

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

Yes. I agree. One of the moments in my life that has really stuck with me was I was at a national conference in 2009. My daughter had just been born. It was my first time like being away from her. So I was a little bit of a wreck. I had probably had a lot of hormones still, like going on in my body. And I'm at this national conference in Atlanta being sponsored by CDC, um, the agency for toxic substances and disease registry or ATSDR. And in the back of the room, I see this mother with a little baby and I miss my baby. So I'm kind of probably awkwardly staring at her. And when she stands up to say something I'm really intrigued and you know, I, I pay attention and she told the story. She said she had driven across five state lines to get to this conference. She said she lived in a state right on the border with another state. And in her state, apparently it was legal to burn pesticide. But in the neighboring state, it was not. And so every night at midnight trucks would come into her neighborhood and drive to the incinerator and every morning she would wake up and she would have this like dust all over everything. The whole neighborhood had it. She didn't really pay attention to it until she had a child. And then she was like, wait a minute. What is this? This is in the air. I'm breathing this, my child's playing in the backyard and maybe eating this so she didn't know what to do. So she said she stopped a police officer that just happened to be driving by one day. And she was like, what is this stuff? And he was like, oh lady, I don't know. He said, well, why don't you call the department of natural resources and ask them? And so she. She called the DNR and the DNR said, oh, now we can't help you with that. Try the department of environmental protection. And so she called them in the department of environmental protection said, no, no, no, we can't help you with that. Try the department of health. And the department of health said, no, we really can't help you with that. Why don't you call ATSDR so she went to the website. She found out ATSDR was having this meeting and she decided to come in person cuz she couldn't get answers. And it broke my heart because I, I know people in public. Who care about people and they wanna help people. And this woman wasn't getting that help. And so I really think, you know, sometimes we need to put public back into public health. We need to engage those community members and it, yes, it's gonna take extra time and it's gonna take extra work. But at the end of the day, if you want people to appreciate what you're doing, if you want to feel like public health is valued, you need them to be part of it from the very beginning and you need them to be driving.

Maura Leahy:

I can't say how much, uh, that resonates with me. I just said that the other day, actually, cuz I'm doing a CDC fellowship on e-learning as part of their e-learning Institute. And my module's all about how to plan an accessible virtual event. And I literally say in the intro to it, that accessibility benefits all people, not just people who have specific accessibility needs and we all work in the field of public health. And so it's never that we, I don't think we lose sight of that. It's public health. I think it's a good reminder for us all to really be sure that we are working with and elevating the voices of the people that we are here to serve. And that's part of what this podcast is all about, is trying to elevate that. And you've shared such wonderful stories today.

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

Thank you so much for having me. I love that AMCHP is doing this, that you're thinking about these issues that you're trying to get things out there in new ways.

Maura Leahy:

I have one last question for you. So this is a question that we're asking of all of our MCH bridges guests this year, and it grew out of a plenary at our 2022 AMCHP conference where we want to just celebrate and uplift the diverse stories about what. Brings people to public health. How did you get here? I'm thinking of a bowling alley. Like what are some of those bumpers that have kind of brought you to the 10 pin that is public health? So wondering if you'd just be willing to share a little bit about what's your, why for what brought you into public health and why you do the, the work that you currently do?

Dr. Megan Latshaw:

You know, that's an interesting question. I will tell you a story and then I'll try to answer your question. I, um, when I met my husband, we, I think it was maybe our first. When I was just in the process of applying to schools of public health. And he said, so what do you wanna do with your life? And I said, well, I just wanna make the world a better place. And he laughed so hard. He spit his water out of his mouth, across the table and all over. And I looked at him and I was like, it's not funny. Like I wanna make the world a better. But, you know, I guess that for him, he's a stock broker. It's just a different field, I guess. But that goes back, I guess, to your question, which is like, what is my, why? Um, I don't know, like maybe it's my faith. I really am. I have a really strong faith and I wanna make the world a better place. I feel like that's why we're all put here, but I do hope that I can walk with people and partner with people and use, you know, what I have been given, you know, my degree. My connections to advance, uh, those communities goals.

Maura Leahy:

Thank you all for joining us on this MCH bridges. We kindly ask that you take a few minutes to fill out a quick feedback survey and let us know what MCH related topics you're interested in. And who you want to hear from on future episodes, a link to the podcast feedback survey, as well as the transcript of this episode can be found at www.mchbridges.org. Be sure to follow AMCHP social media. We're on Twitter and Instagram DC_AMCHP. We hope this episode created new connections for you stay well. And I hope our paths crossed on the next MCH bridges. This project is supported by the health, resources and services administration for HRSA of the us department of health and human services for HHS as part of an award totalling $1,963,039 with 0% finance with non-governmental sources. This information or content and conclusions are those of the author and should not be construed as the official position or policy of nor should any endorsements be inferred by HRSA, HHS, or the us government.